{"id":18930,"date":"2023-05-23T05:59:50","date_gmt":"2023-05-23T05:59:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.editage.com\/insights\/video\/in-conversation-with-mark-hahnel-revolutionizing-open-science-with-figshare\/"},"modified":"2023-05-23T05:59:50","modified_gmt":"2023-05-23T05:59:50","slug":"in-conversation-with-mark-hahnel-revolutionizing-open-science-with-figshare","status":"publish","type":"video","link":"https:\/\/www.editage.com\/insights\/in-conversation-with-mark-hahnel-revolutionizing-open-science-with-figshare","title":{"rendered":"In conversation with Mark Hahnel: Revolutionizing open science with Figshare"},"content":{"rendered":"

Discover the inspiring journey and groundbreaking work of Mark Hahnel, the visionary founder and CEO of Figshare, in an episode of All Things SciComm<\/a>. All Things Scicomm is a podcast series by ScienceTalks (an initiative of Cactus Communications). This episode is being republished on Editage Insights with permission.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Mark Hahnel is the founder and CEO of Figshare<\/a>, an online platform and repository designed for researchers to store, share, and publish a wide range of outputs beyond traditional research articles, including data sets, images, posters, presentations, and code. Figshare allows researchers to upload their research outputs and assign them unique digital object identifiers (DOIs) for easy citation, sharing, and discovery. Figshare is used by not only individual researchers but also institutions, publishers, and organizations to manage and showcase their research outputs. Sharing outputs on Figshare makes them Findable, Accessible, Interoperable, and Reusable (FAIR), thereby allowing researchers to comply with the increasing number of open data mandates around the world. Figshare has experienced significant growth and recognition as an open data repository. It has attracted researchers from various disciplines and institutions around the world, leading to the expansion of its user base and influence within the scientific community.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

From this engaging conversation between podcast host Nikesh Gosalia and Mark Hahnel, you will learn about the genesis of Figshare, which completes 10 years this year. In this episode, Hahnel shares his personal story of how he ventured into research and found his niche in genomics and stem cell biology. Hahnel discusses the challenges he faced during his academic journey and the pivotal moment that led him to create Figshare. It was his frustration with the limitations of traditional publishing\u2014such as it not being amenable to certain formats and file sizes\u2014that motivated him to build an all-in-one repository for papers and nontraditional research outputs.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

The discussion delves into the shifting trends in academia, including the increasing focus on open access and open science. He reflects on the growing acceptance of open data and the accelerated progress it has made, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic. Hahnel emphasizes the need for accessibility, sustainability, and scalability in open access and open data initiatives and highlights Figshare\u2019s role in supporting universities, funders, and publishers worldwide in this pursuit.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Hahnel\u2019s transition from academia to entrepreneurship was driven by the need for flexible and accessible research dissemination. He turned a challenge into an opportunity to transform the research-communication landscape. His unique perspectives as both a researcher and a forerunner of open science will be of interest to researchers, science communicators, and innovators alike! Don\u2019t miss this chance to learn more about the beginnings of Figshare and hear from a changemaker at the forefront of scicomm innovation!<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

[Interview transcript]<\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Nikesh Gosalia<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to All Things SciComm.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Today\u2019s guest is a visionary. He\u2019s the Founder and CEO of Figshare, the all-in-one repository for papers, FAIR data, and nontraditional research outputs. His passion for open science is revolutionizing the research community. His experience as both, a scientist and a businessman, enables him to provide unique points of view in this space.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Everyone, please welcome today\u2019s guest, Mark Hahnel! Good to have you today, Mark.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Mark Hahnel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

Thank you, Nikesh, it\u2019s great to be here.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Nikesh Gosalia<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

Let\u2019s get started at the very beginning, Mark. What got you into the research field in the first place?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Mark Hahnel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

I did okay at school where I was good with mathematics, and when I got to the university stage, I always intended to go to university and I ended up doing Biological Sciences, which then ended up. It was a nice, kind of, everything to been in a little funnel. I started doing Biological Sciences up in Newcastle, and then you specialize. I was really interested in the beginning to do something that I like. I had this choice of do maths that I am good at, or do something that I am more interested in. I am really happy that I chose to go into the life sciences at that point. I am amazed that a 17-year-old me made some good decisions. I started doing biological sciences and you get to do a little taster of several different modules.I knew I wasn\u2019t very good at pharmacology, but I knew I really liked the genetic side of things. It was around the time of Dolly the Sheep was big in the news. And so, it all seemed so, kind of, like sci-fi and bleeding edge. And so, I ended up majoring in genomics, as they say in America.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

My undergrad was genomics. I did a master\u2019s in human genetics. And I did a masters in human genetics I didn\u2019t ever intend to go into post grad research. But then, I went away on a little travel, as people do occasionally in the UK and take a year out. On that trip, I met somebody who did genomics and was going to do a masters and a PhD in genomics. He had a plan. I said, why are you going to do that? He said, well, I like doing it. I don\u2019t know what else to do. I thought that sounds like a good idea.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Universities weren\u2019t as expensive as they are now. It seemed that it was much more accessible. I did a master\u2019s in human genetics and managed to fall into a PhD in stem cell biology as a result of it. Yes, I loved it. It never felt like work, it just felt like a continuation of doing the stuff that I liked.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

I never intended to leave academia, but I am a good 10 years out of academia now. The best-laid plans don\u2019t always go to plan.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Nikesh Gosalia<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

Wow, that\u2019s fascinating, Mark. Like you mentioned, to do something that you really like is generally a privilege.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Could you just maybe talk a little bit about what\u2019s Figshare all about, where you are in the journey right now?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Mark Hahnel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

Yes, sure thing.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

During my PhD, as I said, I didn\u2019t plan to leave academia. I was enjoying stem cell research. There was a lot of cool stuff going on in that field at the time. We had the dawn of iPFS cells, which sorry, iPS cells, which were, again, this new kind of magic that was happening. At the time, I was not familiar with academic publishing. I didn\u2019t really know how it worked. I wasn\u2019t aware what was an Elsevier, what was a Wiley? I knew that it was good to publish in Nature and things like this. I was just going about my work, trying to start publishing some papers.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

When I first tried to publish a paper, I had a lot of videos of stem cells moving from one side of the screen to the other. I was trying to get them to move. If I showed you this video, you\u2019d understand that the blue ones are moving faster than the red ones, so something is happening to the blue ones. You can understand that research is very visual. When I went to publish my first paper, they said, sorry, we can\u2019t accept those files, even as supporting information because they are too big. They were about five megabytes. I was upset not because I wanted all research to be open and everybody to share all of their research outputs, which is a noble endeavor. I was upset because I had spent my whole weekend making sure these videos were in the right file format and edited in the right size and everything like this. I was upset that I could not publish these outputs. Then, the paper that I had written had to have this extra section, which was the blue cells moving at 2.6 microns per second and things like this.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

At the time, I was a hacky coder at best, I still am. I just decided I was doing some science blogging, because I liked that. And I decided to start making my outputs available online. I started getting feedback from other people in the science blogging community that, yes, if you are going to start publishing your other research outputs, there\u2019s a few rules you should really follow because they need to be persistent, right? You could upload those videos to YouTube. But then, you could delete them at any time. It\u2019s more difficult to cite. Ideally, they\u2019d have a DOI so you could cite them and get some credit for them. And so, I just listened to the good advice to the community and started building this with my own version of a publishing platform that turned out to be what is now Figshare?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

I allowed other people to upload their files as well. You could sign up, upload your files, publish it and get a DOI. At the time, Digital Science had just started down the road. I was in London, I was at Imperial College, and Digital Science was an incubator investor in academic tech ideas and academic tech companies. I was at a science blogging conference and bumped into Daniel Hook, who at the time was CEO of a company called Symplectic, which is one of the digital science portfolios, and he said, you should come in and talk to Digital Science about Figshare and what you are doing.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

I called it Figshare because Datashare was already taken. Video Share was already taken. I was trying to think of what is the smallest unit of academia you can share. And so, fig one, fig two, fig three. But now, everybody thinks it\u2019s about the fruit, which is fine by me. Because it\u2019s a memorable name. And so, that is how Figshare was born. Since then, we have scaled it up. Figshare.com, as we call it, the free platform. Anyone can upload and publish any research output. We track citations and Altmetric scores and things like this. We sustain ourselves by building white labeled versions of that, white labeled repositories for hundreds of universities, funders, publishers around the world.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Nikesh Gosalia<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

Wow, that\u2019s well ahead of time to be honest, because, now within the scholarly publishing industry over maybe the last three to five years, the whole conversation of open access, but not just open access, open science. Obviously, the Plan S and OSTP memo, all of those conversations are coming in. I guess, for lack of a better term, everyone\u2019s warming up to the fact that we have to make everything more accessible. But that\u2019s, I mean, really, ahead of time, and perhaps, a lot of it because of your personal experience and frustrations that you went through.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Mark Hahnel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

It\u2019s interesting as well because I have a lot of thoughts on this. Figshare turned 10 this year, which is a really good time, especially with lockdown I think a lot of people were reflecting on many things. We had the great resignation and everyone going off to become a gardener and all of these things. Ten years is a great time to look back on things and then look forward on things and see how fast things have moved along.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

It was actually a guy called Timo Hannay, who was the original CEO of Digital Science. We have had two, there was Timo and now there\u2019s Daniel. Timo used to run nature.com. And so, he was very on the ball with both technology and what was coming through in terms of the trends in academia. When Digital Science first took on Figshare, what it was a\u2026they call it a catalyst grant, and Digital Science still have these catalyst grants. They will give you some funding for an idea but without taking any equity for it, just to see if it develops as an idea. I remember Timo saying to me, we know open data is going to be a thing in the next few years, we know it\u2019s coming down the track, but we don\u2019t know how it\u2019s going to be sustainable. We like Figshare. We like the idea of it. We think it\u2019s early to the space, but we think there\u2019s enough time to develop a model around it.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

It was really him being aware of what was coming down the track when it comes to fund the mandates and things like this. We have the National Institutes of Health for mandating that all research that they fund has to be made\u2026the data has to be made open as of January 2023. In that time, we have gone from nobody really saying you have to do this to every big funder saying you have to do this, peaking with the NIH. UNESCO came out with a statement this year. And so, it was a combination of that is his visionary thinking on it and my just frustration with, well, I want to get credit for all of my research outputs, my egotistical academia. I need to compete against my peer\u2019s mindset, and it was just on that level, right time, right place, but yes, 2019, we saw more open access publications. More than 50% of the publications coming out that year were open access as default. That doesn\u2019t mean you still don\u2019t have people who don\u2019t think that open access or open data is a good thing. But I think on the open data side, in particular, we have seen COVID, for all of its awful things, was a great thing for people understanding that open data is important for moving academia forward further faster.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Drug discovery, and everything like that that has lives attached to it is a really good way for people to understand. If everything is just open, we can build on top of the research that\u2019s gone before a lot easier without any gatekeeping.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Nikesh Gosalia<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

This is absolutely fantastic, Mark, that all of this was thought about, implemented, and now we are discussing, and I see that in all of our conversations that have happened over the last few months.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Just to talk about Figshare a little bit, as I was scrolling through the site, I noticed a lot of research is posted accessible to even lay audiences. How much of the product is available to the public?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Mark Hahnel<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

I am very happy that we have been able to remain core to our roots on a lot of stuff. But obviously, in making sure these things are sustainable and making sure that we can grow in the space, it has slightly tweaked a little bit.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

In the beginning, I thought, oh, we\u2019ll just-it\u2019s free to make things public. You pay to keep things private or something like that, but kind of like the freemium GitHub model. But then, why wouldn\u2019t you just use GitHub? They have 86 million users. There are others. Why wouldn\u2019t you use Dropbox? I use Dropbox. And so, we have two concepts, what I think of as the free figshare.com, we call it, which is anyone can come along, upload some files, add some metadata, and publish their content. That has some rules around it, which we dictate. It can only be licensed under two Creative Commons licenses CC BY or CC0, which means it\u2019s open by default.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Then, as I say, we build versions of this software for anyone from the Department of Homeland Security in North America has a repository for publishing coast guard data and things like this. Also, hundreds of universities. The university requirements are much\u2026each university has its own country rules, and then its own university rules. And so, the universities will use it for publishing all different types of content. If you have to make a dataset available with the publication, they can help you do that. If you have to publish your thesis, they can help you do that. But then universities will have rules like you can only publish the thesis so it\u2019s available on campus. If you are on the campus, you go to their website and you see full access to that dissertation. Whereas if myself sat at home in London, I wouldn\u2019t have access to that content.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

If you had got me in 2012, I\u2019d say, open all the things, everything needs to be open. Now, the European Commission has a great line, which is, as open as possible, as closed as necessary, because not all content can and should be open. We shouldn\u2019t be making datasets around the locations of at-risk species available because they are at risk for a reason. It\u2019s usually poachers or something like that. We shouldn\u2019t be sharing their location. As open as possible, as closed as necessary is a great line. But the free version of Figshare, I think, is very important for equity and allowing anybody to have access to a platform to make their research available.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

What I will say about this is I have spent, as I said, a lot of time reflecting. I have spent a lot of time thinking about this idea of what academics want in this new Open Access world. I think it\u2019s fast publishing, good publishing, and open publishing. I\u2019d also contest that maybe free is an option as well into this mix, because not everybody has money to pay $12,000 for a Nature Neuroscience paper. But this idea of fast, good, open is at the crux of where a lot of the issues are, I think, with open access publishing and open science and open research. In that, academia works, you publish papers, we understand the credit system. Is it good? Yes. Because there\u2019s peer review. Is it open? Well, we are moving to that model so it\u2019s becoming more open, and I think we\u2019ll get to 95% in the next 10 years, or whatever, we can get to as a max. Is it fast? No, it\u2019s not fast. You have preprints? Fast? Yes. Open? Yes. Good? Right?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

This is the problem with data as well. Data and preprints are very similar as to each other, and so publishing data using the free figshare.com or publishing any nontraditional research output posters, presentations, code. Fast, open, but the quality issue, even down to the metadata. There\u2019s no curation. We have six million files across Figshare infrastructure. It\u2019s very hard to have a sustainable way to curate that or to check the content even. We have rules about taking down certain bits of content. It\u2019s advertising yourself too much or advertising something in general, we take it down.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Whereas it does open up this non-peer review landscape, which is an interesting one to decide who is the gatekeeper of what can and can\u2019t be published. We have been struggling with that a lot. But anybody can upload any content, make it openly available, and then anybody can come and consume all of that content.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

We have open APIs. People build cool stuff on it. People index it in certain places. That\u2019s been really fun to see.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Nikesh Gosalia<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/b><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n

Great.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":33313,"template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"inline_featured_image":false},"new_categories":[],"new_tags":[],"series":[],"class_list":["post-18930","video","type-video","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nIn conversation with Mark Hahnel: Revolutionizing open science with Figshare | Editage Insights<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"In this engaging conversation between podcast host Nikesh Gosalia and Mark Hahnel,\u00a0the founder and CEO of Figshare,\u00a0Hahnel shares his personal story of how he ventured into research and found his niche in genomics and stem cell biology, the challenges he faced during his academic journey, and the pivotal moment that led him to create Figshare.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link 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